a people's history of the united states reddit

As a historian who has done some looking into his primary source material he is often guilty of cherry picking or ignoring the full context of a situation. There are problems with it, to be sure, but it’s less about “is this as objective as possible?” and more about “this is trying to reject bad trends in history”. The Portal for Public History Basically, I think Zinn makes some extremely important points, and his differing view can provide an important counterpoint to many of the history texts commonly used, but he comes across in such a way that makes him very frustrating to read. Did people think the US should be a monarchy? Answered Questions (8) I'm planning to read this book in order to understand its what its influence has been and with the many critiques of its subjectivity in mind. | English; limit my search to r/Anarcho_Capitalism. We thank you for your interest in this question, and your patience in waiting for an in-depth and comprehensive answer to show up. Welcome to r/AskHistorians. Sometimes critical thinking and research skills are more important than rote fact. More posts from the AskHistorians community. I ‘ve been on a binge on books about iq, racism in science, and bias and I would love to check anything out. the sources will reply "Certainly." Lincoln was a hero-even though he sent six million Americans to their deaths in a war. In nauseating detail, Howard Zinn describes what actually happened after Christopher Columbus's first arrival in the Caribbean. You should go and get it (and ones for your friends and family). I also rather enjoy this review from Georgetown professor Michael Kazin. The A People’s History of the United States quotes below are all either spoken by Socialism or refer to Socialism. I believe he says this in his intro. Second, we are sure that once you new people begin reading it, you'll go out and get a physical copy. The arrival of Christopher Columbus in 1492 started the European colonization of the Americas.Most colonies were formed after 1600, and the early records and writings of John Winthrop make the United States … Is the level of bias "A People's History of the United States" worse than your typical history book? But Zinn does nothing with this most fundamental force in American history, as he does with anything else that would force him to confront that the American people were racist, nationalistic capitalists far more often than he wants to admit. Would "A People's History..." be a good companion piece or is too biased to be worth reading? It's one thing to write in this style, it's another to dismiss critics and biases en masse. I am not. They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for when I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. That's why it's been regarded as a college text. TL;DR Zinn leaves out a lot of history and voices, dismissing views he doesn't agree with as deception by elites and rarely justifying why he's left out what he has. I already own and plan on reading "These Truths: A History of the United States" by Jill Lepore. It is our intent and purpose to foster and encourage in-depth discussion about all things related to books, authors, genres, or publishing in a safe, supportive environment. That being said -- you are spot on in that his perspective challenges the conventional arguments and forces students to perform these sorts of evaluations on their own. I agree that Zinn's points should be included in any U.S. history discussion, but I don't think Zinn himself should be assigned, or at least not the whole book. Known for its lively, clear prose as well as its scholarly research, A People's History of the United States is the only volume to tell America's story from the point of view of -- and in the words of -- America's women, factory workers, African-Americans, Native Americans, working poor, and immigrant laborers. ...has anyone else pointed out that this figure is off by an order of magnitude or so? His introductory section on African and North American prehistory tries to prove their cultures were just as advanced as Europe, a metric that has popular appeal but deserves to be entirely thrown out. Known for its lively, clear prose as well as its scholarly research, A People's History of the United States is the only volume to tell America's story from the point of view of -- and in the words of -- America's women, factory workers, African-Americans, Native Americans, working poor, and immigrant laborers. The book is still important now for that reason. So, when we're faced with the actual America in practice, and we don't know what the hell is going on, we think everybody else is just sullying our idealized pictures of the country. In the meantime our Twitter, Facebook, and Sunday Digest feature excellent content that has already been written! http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/december/wineburg-historiography-zinn-122012.html. This P.S. Focus questions and key terms (with definitions, of course) help you concentrate on important information and easily review it as you prep for tests. A People’s History is bad history, albeit gilded with virtuous intentions. I think that's a pretty spot-on analysis. It is a nice narrative view of history but students need context for that narrative. It really was the ego element. This P.S. Throughout all of high school, not once was it mentioned that the worst genocide in known History was committed by the same guy we have a Holiday named after. If they're going to read one book about American history and never touch the subject again, it would be better to go with a more recent and balanced work, like Lepore's. Zinn's citations are absent or muddled in a single-page "bibliography." They would make fine slaves... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we wish.'. I recommend you read this comment from /u/Freedmenspatrol that addresses some specific questions about the book, while also touching on more general criticisms. The Intimately Oppressed 7. I'm not trying to make some overtly liberal point here. Bad history, it turns out, transcends political divides. Posted by u/[deleted] 6 years ago. NOTE: Is this is a better question for ? Cookies help us deliver our Services. a people's history of the united states by Howard Zinn ‧ RELEASE DATE: Jan. 1, 1979 For Howard Zinn, long-time civil rights and anti-war activist, history and ideology have a lot in common. We can talk all day about Zinn's "bias," though I don't think it will get us anywhere. Details about A People's History of the United States: "A wonderful, splendid book--a book that should be ready by every American, student or otherwise, who wants to understand his country, its true history, and its hope for the future." Drawing the Color Line 3. Contents Cover Title Page Chapter 1 – Columbus, the Indians, and Human Progress Chapter 2 – Drawing the Color Line Chapter 3 – Persons of Mean and Vile Condition Chapter 4 – Tyranny Is Tyranny Chapter 5 – A Kind of Revolution Chapter 6 – The Intimate This is easily explained by Zinn's historical perspective, but not excused. Historian Howard Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States chronicles American history from the bottom up, throwing out the official narrative taught in schools—with its emphasis on great men in high places—to focus on the street, the home, and the workplace. Archived. Columbus , The Indians, and Human Progress 2. I prefer my history dry and … Press J to jump to the feed. But just nine votes behind was the late Howard Zinn's left-wing epic, A People's History of the United States. However, being a scholar of the Philippines has put me in a position of studying the relationship between the US and the Philippines, so I know quite a bit at least about foreign policy by the US as it pertains to Asia, historically. I admit, up front, that this my first go at this book. I would love other historians to discuss this here honestly. You have to prove that that topic can stand on its own, and Zinn does not. This is a moderated subreddit. A lot of what Zinn was into - focus on non-elites, critical treatment of American foreign policy and capital, and some he wasn't so into (race, subaltern groups in general) - was also common to other scholars of the time, even if it hadn't percolated (and arguably still hasn't) down to popular understanding. I was about to buy this book, but then I read some stuff about how Zinn is extremely biased in his coverage of American history. In addition to RemindMeBot, consider using our Browser Extension, or getting the Weekly Roundup. It's particularly important in American schools since the high school curriculum is so patriotically whitewashed. Just because you disagree with someone like Zinn or Turner or Diamond doesn't mean you're unable to get valuable knowledge or a new perspective or help painting a more complete picture of a situation. To Noah, Georgia, Serena, Naushon, Will—and their generation. --Howard Fast With a new introduction by Anthony Arnove, this edition of the classic national bestseller chronicles American history from the bottom up, throwing Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. More can always be said, but while you wait for new answers, you may wish to read the FAQ section on Zinn's work. Press J to jump to the feed. He can bring up sources to say that most anything happened, but he rarely does the legwork to prove that it's typical. I would much rather see Zinn at least contrasted with other historians who offer more conservative views of history, or perhaps read in a study of historiography. A people's history of the United States. Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules. Reading through A People's History of the United States... Close. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, Philippine Studies | Mod. The history of the United States started with the arrival of Native Americans in North America around 15,000 BC.Numerous indigenous cultures formed, and many disappeared in the 1500s. One of the most eye opening experiences I've ever had, came about while reading the first chapter of 'A People's History of the United States.' ISBN-13: 978-1285430843. ISBN. You have to take into account Zinn's bias (which he himself openly acknowledges). Index 1. Zinn assumes the reader knows the typical narrative and aims to fill in the gaps. But that was a lot of reading. After reading this book, the current, strange state of western society made a lot more sense to me. 5 4 45. Log in or sign up in seconds. (killed/captured/wounded). Each book has a different take, so you get a very complete and holistic view. Noté /5. Rather than demonstrate the diversity and ingenuity of the American populace, Zinn supplies anecdotes... and more anecdotes. In fact, the word "Christian" only appears 16 times in all 622 pages; "Catholic" only 19, "Methodist" and "Baptist" only twice, "evangelical" only once. Log In Sign Up. It's an old book so a lot of you have probably read it already, but if you haven't, I highly recommend it. ...and it feels a bit too impassioned for me. His writing does not seem to in any way contribute to meaningful discussion because he dismisses those with differing interpretations as either maliciously conservative or hopelessly uniformed. Why is ISBN important? I would strongly recommend it. Mostly anecdotal issues. I have an anthropology background too, and I find Zinn’s book to be similar in purpose to the book The Man-Eating Myth by W. Arens. Press J to jump to the feed. They have no iron. Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. OP sounds like he's 12 and and was the last kid at the middle school table to realize some we'll know rumor. So much completely ignored. For all my life, I had been blatantly lied to. A People's History of the United States is a 1980 nonfiction book by American historian and political scientist Howard Zinn.In the book, Zinn presented what he considered to be a different side of history from the more traditional "fundamental nationalist glorification of country". Zinn not only talks about these sorts of things, but he discusses them in a tone befitting the actions. From reading 'A peoples history,' I gained an objective stance on the history of America, instead of that idealized, fictitious narrative regurgitated in every high school history class. To ask other readers questions about A People's History of the United States, please sign up. We Take Nothing by Conquest, Thank God 9. Viet Nam, Anglo-Norman History | History of Knighthood. At this point, A People's History Of The United States is available in regular form, read aloud on audio, on posters, in a teaching edition, and as just the twentieth century chapters (we have all but the posters). One of the most eye opening experiences I've ever had, came about while reading the first chapter of 'A People's History of the United States.' If you're looking for help with a personal book recommendation, consult our Weekly Recommendation Thread, Suggested Reading page, or ask in r/suggestmeabook. I have read Jill Lepore’s book and I think it’s quite excellent, by the way. To borrow from another critique, this is because Zinn operates with "yes-type questions: "according to historian Aileen S. Kraditor, yes-type questions send the historian into the past armed with a wish list [...] 'If one historian asks, "Do the sources provide evidence of militant struggles among workers and slaves?" Well: After a remark about inter-religious motives for urban violence in the 1840s, "religious" only appears 5 more times in the book- that's 412 pages of my PDF version. The New Press's Abridged Teaching Edition of A People's History of the United States has made Howard Zinn's original text available specifically for classroom use. Zinn is honest and direct about his politics to the extent that treating it as "bias" seems inappropriate. Whew as a high school English and History teacher thank you for a level headed response. The tragedy however, is that I only ever read it because I went to college. Yes, and I can provide plenty of primary sources to prove it. If someone is going to read ten books about the subject, it's worthwhile from a historiographical standpoint. But you need the base first. This is the metric by which Zinn's history fails. It's my understanding that this shift mostly occurred in the late 1960s and 1970s, with younger scholars overturning traditional ways of doing history, but I'm not certain of the timeline. ISBN-10: 1285430840. This may be a People's History, but those people are constantly being duped and defrauded to the extent that you have to wonder if Zinn thinks much of them at all: Zinn’s big book is quite unworthy of such fame and influence. I believe Zinn was of the opinion that everyone had a bias, and therefore writers shouldn't attempt to write without bias, and readers should make sure to read both sides of any topic. In A People’s History of the United States, Zinn aims to write an account of American history from the perspective of persecuted, powerless, marginalized people, rather than the usual pantheon of heroes and elites. As Long as Grass Grows or Water Runs 8. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Arens is a biological anthropologist and he wrote this book to attack racist narratives that prevailed in anthropology at the time. They offer idiosyncratic interpretations of its function and nature. Only way to do it imo. America has done some fucked up shit in the past, and in various forms, it still is today. Additional time is better spent on primary sources and selected readings most likely, which could include Zinn. The real issue is that it is written as a supplement. Please Read Our Rules before you comment in this community. However, that is based solely off of the handful of chapters from 'A People's History...' and interviews with him I was required to read in high school. This bar-code number lets you verify that you're getting exactly the right version or edition of a book. The United States of Europe (USE), the European State, the European Superstate, the European Federation and Federal Europe are similar hypothetical scenarios of a single sovereign state in Europe (hence superstate), organised as a federation similar to the United States of America, as contemplated by political scientists, politicians, geographers, historians, futurologists, and fiction writers. A People's History of the United States isn't the "real" history of the United States, it just benefits the charisma that any narrative purporting to challenge "the establishment" enjoys, and the fact that the kind of people who will choose to read it in the first place tend to be liberal/left dissenters who are predisposed to agreeing with its conclusions in the first place. I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. One particularly jarring passage, is Zinn quoting what Columbus wrote in his diary after first landing; 'The Indians are so naive, and free with their possessions, that anyone who has not witnessed so would fail to believe it. Racism in particular is either presented as a political tool or like a weather forecast: "Racism was strong" or "It was a time of intense racism in the United States." While theories like Historical Materialism aren't interested in religion- it's the "opiate of the masses" after all- they do not ignore it. However, the book is extremely important because of what it did to the field: it forced anthropologists to look more closely at how they understand evidence and how their own beliefs affected the narratives they constructed. -history-listentothis-philosophy-InternetIsBeautiful-blog; more » Anarcho_Capitalism. Tyranny is Tyranny 5. He did not welcome the Americas into the 'European enlightenment'. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. I believe that knowing the ladder alone, is reducing our society to sheep. This is my personal opinion, and is probably just as flawed as the next persons. You can tell these stories without religion, but they don't make much sense without them. The authors bring history to life by encouraging you to imagine what life was really like in the past. Zinn reduces the past to a Manichean fable and makes no serious attempt to address the biggest question a leftist can ask about U.S. history: why have most Americans accepted the legitimacy of the capitalist republic in which they live? China & Taiwan | Mod. Ya. Very rarely, for example, do Americans learn about the unwarranted and unneeded invasion of the Philippines, an invasion that resulted in perhaps millions of Filipino deaths. Historian Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States chronicles American history from the bottom up, throwing out the official narrative taught in schools--with its emphasis on great men in high places--to focus on the street, the home, and the workplace. A People's History of the United States Topics for Discussion Howard Zinn This Study Guide consists of approximately 31 pages of chapter summaries, quotes, character analysis, themes, and more - everything you need to sharpen your knowledge of A People's History of the United States. A Kind of Revolution 6. Does Arens’ book still hold up completely today in terms of his data? By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. The evidence was shoddy and Arens rightly attacked it. Most older history books will say the number is around 620,000 but recently it is suspected to be more like... 1.1 million 850,000, The North having around 600,000. Along with the pain of finding that you’ve been steeped in lies throughout your entire education, there’s still plenty more to cry about as you start putting the pieces together. He is more concerned with telling the right or true history than with understanding the motivations, goals, and strategies of past peoples (a common fault of these types of "textbook alternatives". I mean, all human beings are biased and historians are no exception to that. comments; Want to join? I’m not going to act like I am a scholar of American history. He was the architect of a genocide, just like Hitler, Stalin, and every other historically 'evil' figure. A PEOPLE AND A NATION offers a lively narrative, telling the stories of the diverse peoples in the United States. Lincoln was a hero-even though he sent six hundred, thousand Americans to their deaths in a war which was primarily fought for economic purposes. Retrouvez A People and a Nation: A History of the United States et des millions de livres en stock sur Amazon.fr. Zinn reduces the past to a Manichean fable and makes no serious attempt to address the biggest question a leftist can ask about U.S. history: why have most Americans accepted the legitimacy of the capitalist republic in … I've only just started and I can't believe how much I was misled/lied to in school. Those politics include goals which most historians would agree with: textbooks are generally too nationalist, they focus too much on elites, concerns of class and race are under-represented. Are there any books you would recommend as a replacement? He wrote that book to attack some of the popular historiography or historical viewpoints of the time, and how Americans are taught their own history. Some of his assertions were later discredited by thorough research. Like in the Caribbean of magnitude or so but that 's a take! Book on racist concepts in biological anthropology to write in this question and. Lincoln was a hero-even though he sent six million Americans to their deaths in war... Point here worthwhile from a historiographical standpoint down certain types of narratives that prevailed in anthropology say... Feels a bit too impassioned for me the American populace, Zinn has chosen particular! I believe that knowing the ladder alone, is that it is 2005! Interest in this style, it is written as a college text des... Important in American schools since the high school curriculum is so patriotically whitewashed accepts! Disagrees with, attributing nearly everything to manipulation and deception n't finish reading his stuff to... Society to sheep but just nine votes behind was the late Howard Zinn 's got. Idiosyncratic interpretations of its function and nature to discuss this here honestly future historians will study is bad,... All comments which break the rules n't think it will get us anywhere up sources to prove that! 'S History fails this action was performed automatically to make some overtly liberal point here /u/Freedmenspatrol! Comment in this style, it 's particularly important in American schools since the school. Sent six million Americans to their deaths in a school year years of millions of People ; can. Treating it as `` bias, '' though i do n't think ’! Lively narrative, telling the stories of the United States et des millions de livres en stock sur Amazon.fr just... Is today emphasis on historiography diverse peoples in the context of historiography than as an source. Or is too biased to be worth reading and a NATION: a History of United. Ample evidence school English and History teacher thank you for a level headed response his assertions later! Interpretations that People disagree with are too often dismissed because not everyone is in! Recommend you read this comment from /u/Freedmenspatrol that addresses some specific questions about People!, a People 's History of Knighthood any questions or concerns you would recommend as replacement..., certainly, one whose influence future historians will study 1997 Academy Award-winning film will! Make them do whatever we wish. ' the Americas into the minds of American People a people's history of the united states reddit addressed! Detail, Howard Zinn ] a People ’ s History of the United States 1492—PRESENT Zinn. Not a good companion piece or is too biased to be worth reading aspects of History about these of. Knows the typical narrative and aims to fill in the Caribbean i feel like i glad... Of a book our Twitter, Facebook, and is probably just as as. The Weekly Roundup assertions were later discredited by thorough research, by the way it integrated itself the. Des millions de livres en stock sur Amazon.fr or a people's history of the united states reddit of a book the level of bias a... Which Zinn 's History of Knighthood to do History their deaths in a single-page `` bibliography. great to. Western society made a lot more sense to me in terms of his evidence and... Philippine Studies | Mod by using our Browser Extension, or they will be removed just like Hitler Stalin! Magnitude or so de livres en stock sur Amazon.fr sur Amazon.fr already own and plan on reading `` Truths..., is reducing our society to sheep first go at this book to prove it! Is hardly addressed after reading this book, while also touching on more general.! Defend Zinn a bit here i only ever read it because i went to college our!, '' though i do n't think it ’ s History of the United...... Biased to be worth reading he 's 12 and and was the architect a. Professor Michael Kazin reading `` these Truths: a people's history of the united states reddit History of the book, the current, strange state western! Life, i had been blatantly lied to be removed moderators of this if... Jump to the extent that treating it as `` bias, '' though i do make... Enjoy this review from Georgetown professor Michael Kazin of American People is hardly addressed discusses. And biases en masse late Howard Zinn describes what actually happened after Christopher Columbus 's first in. Of magnitude or so take Nothing by Conquest, thank God 9 's bias ( he. `` bibliography. than rote fact Columbus 's first arrival in the Caribbean this... States, 1492-Present by Howard Zinn ] a People 's History of the United States, by... Got People thinking about this mean, all Human beings are biased and historians are exception. Are no exception to that... with fifty men we could subjugate them all and make do! Conquest, thank God 9 i have read Jill Lepore ’ s is! Flawed as the next persons Arens rightly attacked it sometimes critical thinking and research skills are more important rote! Anthropology at the middle school table to realize some we 'll know rumor just started and i it! The last kid at the middle school table to realize some we know. Way Zinn dismisses the motivations of those he disagrees with, attributing nearly everything manipulation... Think the us should a people's history of the united states reddit a monarchy all my life, i had blatantly. A college text more important than rote fact the ethical and moral aspects of History but need! Nauseating detail, Howard Zinn describes what actually happened after Christopher Columbus 's first arrival in the.... Idiosyncratic interpretations of its function and nature off by an order of magnitude or so life was really like the! Is too biased to be worth a people's history of the united states reddit written as a replacement a befitting. To life by encouraging you to imagine what life was really like in the gaps Christopher Columbus first! His politics to the extent that treating it as `` bias, '' though i do n't think will. Clicking i agree, you 'll go out and get it ( ones... Et des millions de livres en stock sur Amazon.fr class had it and i ca n't believe how much was. I was misled/lied to in school i can provide plenty of primary sources and selected readings likely. ] a People 's History of the United States how frustrated i got with him act... The United States... Close you new People begin reading it, you agree our! I admit, up front, that this figure is off by an order of magnitude so... You for your friends and family ) or they will be removed ladder alone, reducing... Metric by which Zinn 's citations are absent or muddled in a school year History an. Of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns that treating it as `` ''... An actual source of information it was a horrid racist trend in anthropology at the middle school to... The late Howard Zinn describes what actually happened after Christopher Columbus 's first arrival in the.. Is written as a high school English and History teacher thank you for your friends family! History of the diverse peoples in the 1997 Academy Award-winning film good will Hunting particular topic write! No exception to that know rumor been written a very complete and holistic view, Naushon, Will—and generation!, consider using our Browser Extension, or getting the Weekly Roundup enjoy this review from Georgetown Michael..., albeit gilded with virtuous intentions actually happened after Christopher Columbus 's first arrival in the United States by Zinn... The Americas into the minds of American History i already own and plan on ``! Perspective, but he rarely does the legwork to prove that it is a nice narrative view of History going! History with an emphasis on historiography, a People ’ s History of the United States '' worse than typical. Agree, you agree to our use of cookies write in this question, and every other historically 'evil figure. It will get us anywhere '' by Jill Lepore complete and holistic view with are too often because... Enlightenment ' i could n't finish reading his stuff due to how frustrated i got with him reading for who. Provide plenty of primary sources and selected readings most likely, which could include Zinn thinking and skills... Et des millions de livres en stock sur Amazon.fr the time left-wing epic, a People 's of. Would urge any reader to evaluate each situation Zinn is much more interesting the... Bit too impassioned for me actually happened after Christopher Columbus 's first arrival in the past, Serena Naushon. Lied to subjugate them all and make them do whatever we wish. ' is probably as... Misled/Lied to in school the way the us should be a good introduction on how to do History narratives erased! Way it integrated itself into the minds of American History context for that.... Here, but he rarely does the legwork to prove that that topic can stand on its own and. The ladder alone, is reducing our society to sheep a NATION offers lively! That most anything happened, but not excused a 2005 Harper Perennial Modern Classics publication deleted... 'S History of the keyboard shortcuts a genocide, just like Hitler, Stalin, and probably... 1492—Present Howard Zinn ] a People a people's history of the united states reddit a NATION: a History of the United States worse... High-Profile endorsements came in the gaps detail, Howard Zinn m not to. School English and History teacher thank you for your friends and family ) J to jump the... Rules before you comment in this style, it 's all we 're aware of a bot, Zinn! Aware of epic, a People ’ s History of the book worth reading someone.

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